About the Guest

Joe Tenczar is the Chief Information Officer for Sonny’s BBQ, one of the largest and most popular barbecue restaurants in the country. Additionally, Tenczar is a founding partner & CIO of Restaurant CIOs, a “CIO-as-a-Service” company where he and his CIO partners collaborate to help hospitality companies. Joe has held leadership positions at Hard Rock International, Marriott and Ripley’s Entertainment.

Episode Summary

As technology becomes more central to restaurant business strategy, Joe Tenczar, CIO of Sonny’s BBQ and CIO & Partner at Restaurant CIOs, shares how the role of the CIO must evolve, the growing importance of data, and what to look for in a point of sale (POS) system.

Episode Transcript

Zach Goldstein

00:01

From fake meat and robot chefs to ghost kitchens and delivery drones. The restaurant industry is rapidly evolving. Welcome to Food Fighters, bringing you interviews with the leading industry trailblazers. I’m your host, Zach Goldstein.

Zach Goldstein:

00:17

Hey there, welcome to Food Fighters. This is your host, Zach Goldstein. I’m really excited to be joined by Joe Tenczar. Joe Tenczar the Chief Information Officer of Sonny’s BBQ, one of the largest and most popular barbecue restaurants in the country. Joe joined Sonny’s in 2014 with a focus on creating the franchise restaurant technology blueprint of the future. Joe is also a founding partner of Restaurant CIOs, a CIO-as-a-service company, where he and his partners collaborate to represent hospitality companies on a fractional basis. Excited to have you on the Food Fighters podcast Joe, thanks for joining us.

Joe Tenczar:

00:53

Thanks Zach, good to be here.

Zach Goldstein:

00:53

So some people have been lifelong Food Fighters and grew up in the industry. Others stumbled into it. What’s, what’s your story of how you became a Food Fighter and more broadly a chief information officer?

Joe Tenczar:

01:09

Wow, no, long story. So I started out in programming computers back in 1979. You know, back in the Apple, IIe, actually before Apple IIe – the Apple II days before we had basic and all those fun things. And I was fortunate enough to be good at math, I guess at the time. So they had two computers in the school and I got to got to play around with those you know, became a programmer, actually did college level programming before I even went to high school. And then, you know, went off on that career you know, took a little detour for a bit in telecommunications and television production and things like that and and came back because people needed computer graphics for television. So so I got back into it there. After college I went into banking software, which is loads of fun, um and that’s sarcastic you know, it was, it was a, a, you know, interesting ride for sure. You know, just, just becoming part of the corporate world I guess. After that, you know, a couple of stints in, in other finance areas, but then then got together with Marriott and helped run their web team for their for the Marriott Vacation Club, which is, you know, their, I guess their second largest you know, arm of Marriott and then became more of a generalist there. And, you know, once you become a generalist, you become a generalist. And you know, after that gig was done, I got my first CIO gig outside of hospitality and, and then if you thought banking software was fun, think about uh worker’s compensation management. That’s where I was then. But that one didn’t last long.

Joe Tenczar:

02:43

But, but I did get back after that became VP of Tech for uh Ripley’s Entertainment. So they had so, you know, of course there’s a point of sale element of that ticketing and food and beverage services and, and tours and, and scheduling and things like that. They own the Ripley’s Believe It or Not museums, aquariums, uh they have the Great Wolf Lodge up in, in Niagara Falls, Canada at the time. So got the parachute in there and spend a bunch of time in Niagara in the winter, which is again, lots of fun. But, but after that you know, Hard Rock came knocking and I was reluctant before I knew it was Hard Rock, you know, the, the recruiter basically said, “Hey I’ve got a really good, good job here with a global company.” And I said, ah, you know, I’m really happy where I am.

Joe Tenczar:

03:28

They were very persistent and you know, push came to shove and I was uh Hard Rock’s global CIO for, for about six, seven years. You know, worked around … Around the country, around the world actually implementing a new point of sale software or platform for them. Um, putting together some really cool, innovative guest technologies using touch and lasers and cool stuff. And you know, after, after that you know, I came here to Sonny’s and, and Sonny’s was cool because it was a really unique opportunity to be in a green field. So most places you go into, you have, you know, maybe you get the opportunity to change out a point of sale or maybe you get the opportunity to, you know, look at back office or CRM or something. Sonny’s was a blank slate. And they really wanted to basically take a 50 year old company and say, Hey, how do we make this, uh, competitive in the future?

Joe Tenczar:

04:24

So got– it was a really fun project; took me about three and a half, four years to sort of get the kind of the fundamentals in place. And I started taking on more and more. And what that led to was you know, marketing, finance, purchasing. I led a whole bunch of areas within Sonny’s and realized I just don’t like it. I really want to be a technology guy. So so I talked to the owner of the company, Bob Yarmouth, super guy, very fortunate to be working with him and said you know, I, I’m not enjoying what I’m doing. Is there a way we can figure something else out? And he was so generous with you know, an opportunity to say, “Hey, you know, what, why don’t you do your restaurant CIO’s thing and you know, stay here with us. And so we’ll be, you know, kind of a you know, a client I guess.”

Joe Tenczar:

05:14

But, there, I’m really still employed but it’s, it’s an opportunity to do you know, continue the work I’m doing with Sonny’s but also get out there and consult with others. So…

Zach Goldstein:

05:23

There’s something very powerful about focusing on the day to day stuff that you really enjoy. I think that matters because people don’t necessarily know what does a chief information officer do? And so I like, I read an article of yours recently where you said, technology people are always jumping to the how and what they need to be doing is asking the why. Can you tell us about why technologists need to be asking “why” more often?

Joe Tenczar:

05:53

You know, it’s re– with anything in life, you really got to understand what your objectives are. You know, if you go into a loyalty program or third party delivery or something, you can’t just do it because everybody’s doing it. Right. CIO’s today aren’t order takers. Um you know, in the past, CIO’s kind of reported up through the CFO and, you know, it was a finance, it was a, it was an enabling function. It was, you know, support services. Today, technology is so ingrained in every part of the business that the CIO is a business partner. So you need to be, you know, you have to have that thought when you’re, when you’re approached with something like a, like a, you know, third party delivery or a loyalty or anything that comes on your place. You know, the CMO comes to you and says, “Hey you know, we, we really need a, you know, a customer data platform.” It’s like, okay instead of going out and, and figuring out how to do it, you know, the what, you basically start asking questions about why, what are the objectives? There may be a cheaper solution, there may be an easier solution. We may be already doing it. We’re just not utilizing it. So it’s really, you know, it goes back to fundamentals of business. It’s, you know, put a business case together for this stuff. Don’t just fall in love with the technology unless it serves a valuable purpose.

Zach Goldstein:

07:03

Yeah. I mean we see this often, I call it a ‘check the box’ mentality and, and the danger of a check the box mentality is you feel like there’s a buzzword we need to get listed on a delivery site or we need to have a loyalty program or we need to have an app or whatever it is. And instead of understanding what the business goals are, you’re trying to move, you just say, well, we checked that box. We’re good. And, and the problem is 6, 12, 24 months later you won’t have moved any business outcomes. And so it sounds like you see your role as really consulting with the various functions in the organization to ensure that where technology is involved, it’s not just checking the box, it’s actually moving the metric.

Joe Tenczar:

07:49

It’s fun to be able to enjoy what you do. You know, when you go to work in the morning and you know, focusing on strategic technology alignment is really my life. It’s, it’s making sure that um, you know, you bring things to the table where people may not be aware. So, you know, for instance, I attend CES every year, Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas, and it’s one of the most amazing shows in the world, if you haven’t gotten a chance to go but just cool to walk around and see what may or may not be in the consumer’s hands in the next couple of years. And, you know, think about hospitality implications. We are, where could it potentially affect your, your guests in your restaurants and and then bring those back and talk, talk to your, you know, the, the executives about that. Talk to the other business leaders about that to see if, you know, hey, you know, maybe we should start, you know, not necessarily jumping through hoops here, but at least thinking about this and what, what we might want to do in the future to, you know, if this becomes a reality.

Joe Tenczar:

08:44

So so yeah, I mean, business alignment is all about the new CIO. It’s not about, you know, you gotta keep the lights on, you gotta be secure, you’ve gotta be, have your data available, you know, your systems available, you know, you’ve gotta, you gotta you know, check the boxes I guess, like you said, but, but it’s really the CIO’s job to make sure that you know, the business takes full advantage of any technology value.

Zach Goldstein:

09:07

As you think about your experience in the travel industry, uh and maybe because you’ve, you’ve really crossed the entire gamut of hospitality. The benefit that the, that many of the hotels have is that they have complete data records of every single person that walks in. And then you flip that to a restaurant where things are getting better, but by default, restaurants are completely blind to who are their customers that are contributing the majority of revenue. The centrality of data feels like it’s changing and evolving. And I’m interested in your thoughts there.

Joe Tenczar:

09:40

You’re right. The hotel world, when you check in, you’ve got to give a certain amount of information. So we know who our repeat customers are. We know what they, what kind of pillows they’ve called up and asked for. I mean, if we’re, so if we’re, we’re cognizant and tracking that sort of thing, then, then obviously we’ve got a great data record, uh you know, we’ve got a great record of our guests’ behavior or guests’ preferences at least. In the restaurant world, you’re right. Now it’s getting better, but it’s also getting worse. So you know, there’s this thing called Track1 data on credit cards. You know, it’s the first and last name and the last four digits of the credit card. It’s personally identifiable information, but when you swipe a credit card, you get that; most of the time that goes into your point of sale.

Joe Tenczar:

10:20

And that way we can now track at least based on that information, some, some little bits of guest behavior. Now the problem is less, fewer people are swiping now, you know, PCI compliance came into effect. And you know, now we’re going to EMV or chip cards or we’re going to Apple pay, which is even worse. Those are completely anonymous transactions or at least the Apple pay is, there are ways to get EMV stuff, but, but I mean it’s getting, so it’s getting a little bit harder to now identify that that guest anonymously. So we’ve really got to put a lot of effort into you know, linking that guest to that transaction, which is the, that’s the Holy grail. That’s the challenge. And it’s all cool things we can do once we get there. But that’s your, you’re right, we’ve got to move. We’ve got to figure out better ways to connect that consumer with that transaction.

Zach Goldstein:

11:07

And it, and it matters. And I know this is something that you’ve talked, talked a lot about in your work. It matters greatly because data is becoming key to the success of a business. It’s almost like, you know, your service quality and your product, those, those are never going away. You obviously have to deliver those. But the role of a CIO, the importance of collecting data, the importance of weaving technology in through your business is only increasing. And that’s why we see some of the most elite brands, and I, you know, I’m sure you’ve seen this, but some of the most elite brands are spending tens of millions of dollars on their technology stack just to capture that data.

Joe Tenczar:

11:46

Yeah, it’s funny you know, people joke that, you know, Domino’s is a technology company that sells pizza. And you’re right, I mean with, with, you know, the restaurants today are- aren’t going to survive tomorrow at a large scale unless they take full advantage of the, of all this information that they’re getting from their, from their guests and from their point of sale and from, you know, psychographics and things like that. You really have to you know, guests are almost expecting a, you know, a personalized approach to how you market them, how do you sell to them, how you give them their food. And you know, and the only way to do that is to build that customer record based on identifying them when they come into the store or when they buy something.

Zach Goldstein:

12:24

So traditionally the approach there has been a loyalty program. And one of the things that I think is so ironic about about the traditional loyalty program is in an industry that prides itself on hospitality, the idea that you’re going to ask a consumer to carry a plastic card or check in or scan some code or do something every single time they walk into your restaurant, that’s not exactly a great experience for the consumer. And so how do you think about making technology, beyond loyalty programs, but perhaps including, how do you think about making technology easy and seamless and, and what’s the importance of that as people, consumers seek convenience and and you have more and more complex operations?

Joe Tenczar:

13:11

You know, there’s, you know, I just read some research recently really describing this, this whole gen Z demographic and, you know, gen Z, everyone says, you know, Hey, they’re going to be the biggest group of… Gen Z is now they’re, they’re months away, I guess from being the biggest consumer group. And and their behaviors are really different from millennials and millennials were, were all about, Hey, look at me. You know, I’m going to disrupt things. Gen Z is about you know, being with friends and making changes, making, you know, really significant changes in the world, but they’re also the generation that’s grown up who doesn’t really understand the difference between online and offline. They’re always online. And you know, what that means is they’re, they’re used to a world that has constant change. So if you’re not adapting to that change or you’re not, you’re not constantly meeting their needs they’re – It’s really easy for them to change from one thing to the other. I mean, there’s, we are in an economy of convenience now. So you know, I don’t know if we’ll get into this whole, you know, the difference between sort of transactional dining and experiential dining, but from a transactional dining standpoint you know, they’re, they’re basically looking for the easiest, the frictionless way to order something that they, they’d like to eat. Now maybe your food is a little bit better than someone else’s and they’re willing to trade a little bit of friction for that food. But in, in the world that that we’re all living in today, it’s, it’s happening less and less. It’s really, what’s the easiest way to order? What’s the quickest way to get it to my house? I don’t even care if I pay a little bit extra for it. So those are big important things.

Zach Goldstein:

14:41

Yeah I think one of the things that that’s seemingly lost as we talk about the, the, the arrival of delivery it obviously, the idea that you can be at home and get food delivered to you is a changing dynamic that the restaurant industry is trying to figure out how to adapt to and how to make profitable, quite frankly. But there’s a second piece of that that gets less attention. It’s really the digitization of restaurants. It’s that people, the gen Z and frankly also the millennial population are more comfortable placing orders and interacting with people sometimes through a screen than directly. And so they want to order from their phone. They want to order from their computer, they want to order perhaps from a kiosk in the future or using their own phone at the table. And we’re seeing this actually. China’s far ahead on this. People are ordering food when they sit down at the table directly through WeChat or, or some application like that. Are we gonna see more of this digitization and what does a restaurant do to, to adapt to it?

Joe Tenczar:

15:49

Well, you know, I really hate to generalize. It’s funny, I did a panel probably five years ago on millennials and you know, everyone had this perception in their head about what millennials are and how they respond. They don’t want to deal with people, et cetera, et cetera. And you know, what, what I found was, you know, over the years, as I get into my ripe old ages here you know, people are, you know, they’re, they’re all different and they’re all, you know, environmentally they brought, they’ve been brought up in different environments. They’ve all dealt with different experiences and some really like to talk to people on the phone, some people like to talk to, you know, but, but I understand what you’re saying where, you know, there’s, there’s sort of an expectation now to, you know, to have this, this technology in place to make ordering simple or you know, or make it you know, whether it be on your own device or, you know, I think kiosks are starting to almost lose a little bit of steam, but but certainly bring your own device stuff.

Joe Tenczar:

16:40

People have an expectation, you know, it’s also about being with their friends, having social events at restaurants. So, you know, maybe the shift is, Hey, I’m going to order on my phone just so I can spend more time with my friends right here. Or, Hey, look at the cool way I’m ordering on my phone. So, you know, maybe there’s some gamification of ordering. I mean, who the heck knows where it’s going to lead? But I think that you’re right, the expectation is that you gotta make it really, really simple for them to do it and it’s going to be done through some sort of technology. Whether it be you know, whether it be direct to to the point of sale. So through their phone or through a kiosk or whatever, or maybe even different ways if they want to interact with the staff for that, that staff member to enter food into the, into the the kitchen.

Zach Goldstein:

17:25

Yeah, I mean this was a key, key element of how hotels ended up turning the tide against online travel agencies is they had to build great digital experiences. Because if you have a clunky digital experience, the consumer is just going to go to the, to the online travel agency and they had to build personal data-driven loyalty. Right? And so how do I build brand loyalty so that I want to go direct to Marriott or to Hyatt or whoever it is as opposed to just shop around?

Joe Tenczar:

17:55

And I think that that’s the big challenge though, Zach because, because you’ve got, you know, unless you’re Starbucks or, or you know, maybe Panera or, you know, there’s a couple brands that really have done a great job in, in solidifying their customer base. You know, they, it’s, it’s almost like a little cult, you know, I’m a Starbucks person and I’m always gonna be a Starbucks person. I’ve got their app. It’s easy to pay with their app, but, but you can’t do that if you’re a 50 unit chain. Right? I mean, you’ve got to have some scale in order to create that you know, at that level because it’s really expensive to put that kind of technology you know, behind your restaurant. But again, it’s the why. I mean, why are you doing this? I mean, everyone says, Hey, you know what? I need an app. I say, why? No, you don’t. You probably don’t need an app. How many times do people visit you? In a month. What’s your average check? You know, those things work in certain situations, but they don’t work for everything. Now again, with hotels, you know, building loyalty is easier with hotels because you know, you know that guest, you can basically, if they want to give you information about themselves so they can get a better experience so they can, you know, if Hyatt’s all around the country or Hilton or Marriotts are all around the country, you know, I’m going to build affinity. Airlines are the same way. I’m going to build up points so I can then, you know, I, I know I’m going to travel again so I may as well use it. In restaurants, um you know, unless you’ve got something that’s you know, high frequency or if you got something really unique or something that, you know, it’s re- that is a tough proposition and I know, you know, it’s, it’s the Holy grail. Everybody kind of wants to do this. You know, it’s, it is the loyalty program, but it’s the, I think the way loyalty programs are working have to change. I mean you can’t have a discount club anymore. It’s gotta be something that makes it relevant to that person to really, really want to come back and eat that specific food at that specific restaurant or with that specific chain at least.

Zach Goldstein:

19:44

Yeah, you just hit on two things that we emphasize at Thanx a lot because they are often overlooked when we see RFPs on this topic. And it’s a shame. One is: a loyalty program that is app dependent is not going to be a good program. An app can and should be a part of many of those programs because many consumers will indeed want to participate via a mobile application, but not all of them. We can’t fall into the Starbucks fallacy of believing that our brand is the same visit frequency as Starbucks. It’s just not. Right? In fact, there are no other brands other the same visit frequency as Starbucks. They have a chemically addictive product. Right? And so that’s one. And then I think two is the word loyalty has kinda gotten messed up. Loyalty has, has turned into the minds of many people as just rote rewards. And true loyalty is about experiences and treating people uniquely. I mean, the magic of the airlines is when you get that first class upgrade because you’re a big time flyer, right? It’s not $7 off your ticket. Right? And so we need to redefine loyalty and go back to delivering personal experiences to the big time spending customers.

Joe Tenczar:

21:05

Yeah. And some people tried that. I mean, one of the bigger brands you know, tried the whole surprise and delight thing and that works for a little while. And I, I kinda liked it. But it really wasn’t necessarily based on your behavior as a customer and what you liked. It was just something that had showed up one day. I’m like, well, okay, that’s great, but I’ll never, never have that product. I mean, we really are, you know, with all this information that we’re getting from all of these sources, we’ve gotta be able to augment that and put it into a, you know, some CRM, customer data platform, you know, on and on and on. And it gets really mature when you get into marketing tech. But you know, you’ve gotta be able to at least segment your customers so you can, you can talk specifically to them.

Joe Tenczar:

21:45

You know, certainly one-to-one relationships is huge, right? I think everybody really wants to get there. I don’t know how valuable, you know… The cost is really high to get to one-to-one relationships with your guests. And I don’t know if you’re going to get a return on that, but certainly segmentation is huge. You know, let’s, let’s at least, you know, talk to the vegans if we want to segment vegans, you know, let’s talk our message to vegans uh is not the pulled pork sandwich. Right? And you know, so you at least have to get to that level so you can be effective in how you’re marketing. And then, you know, when they walk in the door, even maybe people, some people are you know, are, are more likely to appreciate a, a tiered, you know, I want to get to a certain level so I can show my friends that, you know, I’m a, I’m a platinum, you know, uh, buyer at this restaurant and others just want you know, make it easier for them.

Joe Tenczar:

22:35

Maybe it’s, maybe for members of this loyalty program or this guest affinity program, whatever you’re calling it, maybe they have this unique ability to order differently or, or you know, or, or something like that. And then it’s, then it’s [inaudible] it’s not about the reward so much then let’s personalize and make sure that if we see someone drop off or change behavior, that we try to remodify that behavior to get them back in again or make them maybe try something they haven’t tried before because we’ve noticed that people who, you know, always eat this, this item when they try this item, they love it and they move to that item. And so you know, let’s, let’s target the people that like this item so they move to that item. So – a lot of things you can do with information if you have it.

Zach Goldstein:

23:16

Yeah, that is exactly right. And it’s about having the data and I think one of the most interesting things that we see that is so simple but very effective: just tell your VIP customers about an LTO before everyone else finds out. Let them try it before. That is an awesome experience if you’re a regular customer of a restaurant and you get to try something before anyone else even knows it’s coming? That doesn’t cost anything. But it’s hugely valuable.

Zach Goldstein:

23:48

Q and A with the restaurant industry’s leading disruptors. This is Food Fighters, the podcast.

Zach Goldstein:

23:56

So, okay. I would be remiss if I didn’t talk on a podcast called Food Fighters, about one of the fights that the CIO office has to deal with. What the heck is happening with point of sale? How is it evolving? What are your predictions for the future there? And is it going to constantly be a nightmare for restaurants or is that going to change?

Joe Tenczar:

24:18

Wow, that’s a, that’s a big one. You know, point of sale is really at its core kind of a, you know, it’s a transaction engine. I think what’s happening is a lot of companies are noticing that, you know, there are, it’s a whole omni-channel delivery or omni channel selling is you know, it’s, not going away, it’s going to get even worse. When I choose a point of sale, the number one thing I want is what I call accessibility at the end points. It’s, it’s kind of an open API. So you know, if you’re, it’s, it’s allowing these stubs so you can bring data in and out of that thing very easily cause you don’t know what the next third party delivery is. You don’t know what the next online ordering is or whatever. You know, it could be, you know, thumbprint to order, you know, on your forehead.

Joe Tenczar:

25:01

I don’t know what it’s going to be next. But if I can get, you know, easy access into my point of sale to make that order happen, then hallelujah. Know, you know, everything’s moved. I think not everything. I think a lot of the point of sales are moving to the cloud if they had not already been built on the cloud.

Zach Goldstein:

25:16

Definitely not all of them.

Joe Tenczar:

25:18

So open architecture is huge, uh, cloud is huge to me. You know, you’ve got to have a network that can support it. You know, Qu’s doing something really interesting in the market where they’re sort of the CMS, they’re starting as a CMS or you know, content management system that basically can feed your menu information to whatever endpoint you have. I thought that was kind of a unique approach. You know, Par Brink’s been doing it for a long time.

Joe Tenczar:

25:43

Toast and even you know Aloha, you know, I, I visited NCR a couple of weeks ago and I noticed that they’re, they’re really spending a lot of time with this whole services layer now. They realize that, you know, having a closed system in house has grind files all the time. It’s going to die on the vine and they’ve got to figure out a way to get information in and out of there a lot easier. So even they’re, even they’re playing the game. So as far as what point of sales are, I think they’re going to be necessary cause you got to do the accounting. They’re, you know, they’re the, they’re the transaction. They got to add the tax, they gotta do the discounts. They got to send the sales to the accounting systems. I mean they’re, so they’re in nature, you know, they’re, they’re just this little black box that should be, you know, taking something, um, accounting for the fact that you sold something and then sending it to an accounting system. You know, the whole content layer above that because of these omni-channels I think is really changing. And you know, if you’re not, if you don’t have an open architecture, forget it.

Zach Goldstein:

26:36

Yeah, that’s really a key point because without an open architecture and access to that data, they can’t really become a modern business because the point of sales at the heart. And so it seems like if you were to advise someone listening to this, that is, that is about to make a point of sale decision, are there, you know, one or two or three things that are, must haves, uh, don’t even don’t even consider starting without them?

Joe Tenczar:

27:01

Well, number one is open API. Yeah, absolutely. You know, to me there’s, there’s not even a number two and three. I mean, you have – the table stakes are that it’s gotta do what a point of sale does, right? You gotta be able to ring up transactions, you gotta send orders to the kitchen, blah, blah, blah. I won’t even say that it’s gotta be a cloud solution, but it has to be a cloud hybrid solution. You gotta be able to get data out of it easily and get it in the frequency, at the frequency you want to get it. So I think, you know, one of the the benefits of a cloud system is you’ve got real time access to the data that’s at the store and hopefully you’re using that somehow, right? Whether that be you know, dashboards or, or anything like that for your managers. Or it could be triggers for, you know, how to, how to modify behavior cause certain things are happening. You know, certain consolidation from a franchise level. I mean there’s a lot, a lot of benefits to that whole thing, but, but open API is, is super, super, super huge. Don’t even consider something that doesn’t allow you to get at the data. And you know, that hopefully doesn’t charge you to get at that data.

Zach Goldstein:

28:06

Yes, that is exactly right. No one needs to be taxed while they’re trying to become just a modern business. Well, Joe, this is fantastic. I mean, as a founding partner of Restaurant CIOs it should come as no surprise that you are truly a chief information guru. And, and just in a short, short podcast, we’ve learned a lot. So thank you so much for your time. It’s always fun chatting. And I’m sure we’ll talk soon. And if anyone’s looking to reach out to Joe and three CIO’s he is your guy for all things chief information officer related.

Joe Tenczar:

28:44

All right. Thanks Zach. Rock and roll everybody.

Zach Goldstein:

28:45

Absolutely. Thanks Joe.

Zach Goldstein:

28:49

You’ve been listening to Food Fighters with me, Zach Goldstein. To subscribe to the podcast or to learn more about our featured guest, visit thanx.com/food-fighters. That’s Thanx spelled T H A N X .com/food-fighters. This podcast is a production of Thanx, the leading CRM and digital engagement solution for restaurants. Until next time, keep fighting Food Fighters.